Say Her Name!

This is Asteroid G’s regular column documenting the rise of superhero films in Hollywood. For the complete story, make sure to read the previous parts:

• Part 1: Batman '66
• Part 2: Superman '78
• Part 3: Wonder Woman '75 and the Incredible Hulk '78
• Part 4: Batman '89
• Part 5: Batman & Robin
• Part 6: Blade
• Part 7: X-Men
• Part 8: Spider-man
• Part 9: Iron Man
• Part 10: The Avengers

You might be saying, “wait, you’re covering Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice in this series but you didn’t talk about Batman Begins or its sequels at all?” This is true, we aren’t, and that’s because while the Batman Begins films are fantastic (and really, they are) they didn’t have nearly as much impact on the modern superhero genre as other works. They did show DC that “dark and gritty are okay in superhero films,” but then, didn’t Blade teach us that as well. The best that Christopher NolanMade famous when his second film, Memento, became an art-house hit, Nolan became a household name with his Dark Knight trilogy, quickly becoming one of Hollywoods biggest directors.’s excellent BatmanOne of the longest running, consistently in-print superheroes ever (matched only by Superman and Wonder Woman), Batman has been a force in entertainment for nearly as long as there's been an entertainment industry. It only makes sense, then that he is also the most regularly adapted, and consistently successful, superhero to grace the Silver Screen. films achieved was pulling that film series out of the ground after Batman & Robin… and then Zack SnyderOften reviled for the bombastic and idiotic content of his films, there is no question that what Snyder's movies lack in substance they (at least try to) balance out with flash and style, making him one of Hollywood's top directors... sadly. buried it again.

Martha?

To understand how we got to Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, we first have to look at where the WB was in the lead up to that film. Before the Marvel Cinematic UniverseWhen it first began in 2008 with a little film called Iron Man no one suspected the empire that would follow. Superhero movies in the past, especially those not featuring either Batman or Superman, were usually terrible. And yet, Iron Man would lead to a long series of successful films, launching the most successful cinema brand in history: the Marvel Cinematic Universe. took the world by storm, Warners were on fairly even footing with Marvel in cinemas. Hell, you could argue they still had an advantage. While one of their attempts at a tentpole production, Superman Returns, fell rather flat in 2006, their other major hero, Batman, was doing just fine. He’d gotten a relaunch with Batman Begins, and Warners were already hyped for the follow-up, The Dark Knight. That film debuted the same year as Marvel’s Iron Man, handily besting it at the Box Office (over $1 Bil for the WB versus $585 Mil for Marvel’s debut). If you had looked at the 2008 Box Office, you’d think, “sure, Marvel has something there, but the WB is still, and will always remain, the king.”

But things quickly shifted. Marvel had a plan for how to build out their cinematic universe, while Nolan’s Batman films would only ever be a trilogy tucked away in their own pocket universe. Nolan had no desire to even continue making Batman films past his three (with The Dark Knight Rises debuting in 2012), and despite Warners wanting him for a Superman film, he had no interest. He, instead, worked with them to find someone else to helm that film: Zack Snyder. With some ideas that Nolan contributed, Zack set off to make his own film.

The result was Man of Steel, a film that tried very hard to match the grounded, some might say grittier and darker, tone of Nolan’s Batman films. It was kind of a mess, though, because Superman isn’t the same kind of character as Batman. He’s bright and shiny and practically supernatural. Certainly extraterrestrial. Nothing about the character immediately screams “grounded” let alone “dark and gritty.” Honestly what the film perfectly illustrated was that while Snyder had an eye for action (which he’d also shown in his previous works, like 300 and Watchmen) he was not a master storyteller. Worse, he really didn’t understand Superman.

His Man of Steel came out in 2013 and it managed to bring in $670 Mil against an upwards of $258 Mil budget, so not exactly a rousing success. It was diminutive in comparison to the $1 Bil-plus both Dark Knight films raked in, and it was positively dwarfed by what we’d just seen the previous year as well: The Avengers. That Marvel crossover film blew past everything Warners had produced, pulling in over $1.5 Bil at the Box Office, and it established Marvel as the new kings of cinema.

Now, it’s not fair to say that Marvel caught Warners with their pants down. The studio had gotten a glimmering of what Marvel was up to and they wanted to play in the cinematic universe pool as well. The only issue was that their previous attempt, 2011’s Green Lantern, was an unmitigated disaster. Panned by critics and audiences, that film, which was intended to be the WB’s soft launch for their own cinematic universe, only made $237 Mil off a $200 Mil budget. When Man of Steel came out and at least managed to break even instead of being yet another tragedy, Warners decided that was good enough, and they gave Zack Snyder the keys to the kingdom. “Go forth and make a Man of Steel sequel that could also be our cinematic universe starting point.” A Superman film that could have just been a one off and then quietly put out to pasture suddenly had a bunch of pressure put onto it when it suddenly got a sequel.

Martha?!

To be clear, Man of Steel was shaky ground to build a cinematic universe. It wasn’t exactly beloved when it came out, with plenty of Superman fans displeased by its darker tone, lack of hope, plus the fact that Big Blue in the film recklessly causes a ton of wanton carnage and even kills someone. The general sentiment, especially among fans of the hero, was that “this just doesn’t feel like Superman.” Of course there was also a vocal contingent of Snyder-stans, people that had enjoyed his previous works and felt like he was a “master auteur”. They showed up for the film, as did general audiences who, because of The Avengers, had a sudden taste for superheroics. That’s what managed to get Man of Steel over the line.

With Warners’ approval, Snyder set to work on his grand vision: three more films that would act as the centerpiece of the DC Extended UniverseStarted as DC Comics' answer to the MCU, the early films in the franchise stumbled out of the gates, often mired in grim-dark storytelling and the rushed need to get this franchise started. Eventually, though, the films began to even out, becoming better as they went along. Still, this franchise has a long way to go before it's true completion for Marvel's universe., WB’s cinematic universe to rival the MCU. While other films and filmmakers would tackle other proposed superhero films (Wonder Woman, The Flash, Suicide Squad, all of which at least came out eventually in a note you should consider foreshadowing), Snyder would help his own trilogy of films. First would come Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, which would then get followed by two Justice League films to, essentially, encompass DC’s “Phase I” (to steal Marvel’s terminology).

Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice was first for the whole universe, and it had to set up everything else. First, it had to get Superman and Batman in a position to fight because, well, then going “versus” each other was the point of the movie. A Batman/Superman brawl film was something Warners had been trying to get off the ground for literal years, ever since Schumaker’s Batman & Robin ate it in theaters. It was something they’d had bouncing around their studios for years, with drafts coming in and out but nothing real to show for it. With the cinematic universe being a requirement by the studio, they trotted this idea out and made it a mandate for the second film of the DCEU. Batman and Superman had to get into a knock-down, drag out brawl. It was required.

Now, credit where it’s due, the film does at least a good job of establishing why Batman (played by Ben Affleck) would need to take down, in some way, Superman (played by Henry Cavill). He saw the destruction Superman caused in his climactic battle at the end of Man of Steel, and all the deaths and carnage that resulted. He has a bone to pick with the alien that, in his mind, considers himself a god. He has to fight Superman, just like he fights every other freak in Gotham, so that the world can be safe.

Where the film falls apart is, well, in every other capacity. For starters, Snyder still doesn’t have a clue how to write Superman. Not only does he view him as some kind of uncaring god, assuming that someone so powerful should be above the concerns of petty mortals, but he has Superman act like an uncaring god as well. “Superman isn’t cool,” you can hear Snyder as you watch the film, and so he tries to make him grim-dark and gritty and depressing when Big Blue is supposed to be an aw-shucks beacon of hope.

But then, Synder also doesn’t understand Batman at all. Batman is the dark protector of Gotham, yes, but he has a code. He doesn’t torture, he doesn’t kill. He’s a protector, not an avenger. Well, unless you put him in Snyder’s hands. Then Batman runs around murdering people, branding them and torturing them. And he also uses guns, which is one of the big no-nos Batman would never do. His parents were gunned down in front of him as a boy. He became Batman to put killers like that away. He hates guns, but guns are cool in Snyder’s mind, so Batman uses guns.

This is a cascading problem throughout the film. The two title characters don’t act right, and neither does anyone else in the film. Not Lex Luther (played by Jesse Eisenberg) who comes across here as a whiny tech bro. Not Lois Lane (played by Amy Adams) who has nothing to do here but be a skirt. Not even Wonder Woman (played here by Gal Gadot) comes across well, as she has no real personality in her scenes, and then is just around for Snyder to toss into the final fight like an action figure.

And if you’re wondering, “what is Wonder Woman doing in a Batman versus Superman film?” well, now you’re on to the biggest issue of this film: it rushes the whole setup for a cinematic universe. Marvel spent four years slowly putting together their heroes, introducing them and getting us to care about each individually, before finally doing a big team up. Synder and DC, though, essentially cut to the chase, dropping us into an immediate crossover as the second film of the series without taking the time to establish the other title character on his own, and then they also plop in a third heroine, Wonder Woman, and cameos for even more (The Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg) in the most hamfisted way to jump-start their ambitions. It just doesn’t work.

MARTHA!

Let’s acknowledge that, at the time it came out, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice was a success. It was only the second film in the DCEU and it made $874.4 Mil at the Box Office. If we just did an apples-to-apples comparison, pitting DC’s second film against Marvel’s second film, then that feels like a huge success. The Incredible Hulk was a massive disappointment, making only $265.5 Mil. It wasn’t even financially successful, being Marvel’s only flop at the Box Office for “The Infinity Saga”. So, sure, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice did better than that.

But it’s not really an apples-to-apples comparison. For starters, The Incredible Hulk was made for $150 Mil whereas Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice was made for $325 Mil. While the latter was a success, it could be considered a qualified one. It likely made its money back, but only barely, turning in a small profit for WB (plus any home video and licensing sales as well to get it well into the clear). Likely The Incredible Hulk eventually broke even, and then some, because it cost so much less to make, could also benefit from licensing and home video sales, and had the Marvel name attached, which meant a lot more once The Avengers came out.

But the other point where the comparison breaks down is in what came next. Marvel was on an upswing, and while The Incredible Hulk didn’t do well, the films they made after did much better, and then with The Avengers everything Marvel shot off into the stratosphere. But for DC, the direction of their universe took a decidedly different turn in a downward direction. Some might even call it a “death spiral”.

While audiences helped make the Batman wrastles Superman film a success, there was also a backlash to the film after its release. While many have gone back to the older Marvel films and found things to like about them, gaining a greater appreciation for the films, the same cannot be said for Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. Within weeks, audiences turned against it, calling out all its flaws and complaining it was too dark, too serious, and not much fun. Warners were suddenly freaked out that their just-starting cinematic universe was already in danger of failure, and so they quickly went into retooling mode even on projects that were in production.

First came Suicide Squad. Originally it was directed by David Ayer, but after his initial cut was met with some dissatisfaction from the WB higher-ups (because they suddenly wanted something happy and bright, like what Marvel was making), they took the film away from him and had a different group edit it. Then when that version was met with disinterest from test audiences, they had a new group mash both versions together into some frankenstein film. Upon release the resulting version was a success, bringing in $749.2 Mil against a $175 Mil budget, but as with Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, audiences were again complaining about style and tone for the film.

Wonder Woman came next and it was one of the few successes for the cinematic universe. While people commented then, and still comment now, that the film falls apart in its third act, it is so blisteringly good for its first two acts that it’s practically a fantastic film. It certainly did well at the Box Office, $824 Mil against an even smaller $149 Mil budget. As far as profitability was concerned, this was the best yet. It had a character that represented hope, honor, justice. You know, all the things people expect from a hero. Warners saw that, and the complaints about the darker third act of the film, and they tried to pivot even hard.

Synder’s first planned part of his Justice League two-parter was next, and the WB was putting real pressure on him to change his film. When his daughter died during production, he took the opportunity to leave and focus on his family (and we respect that) and WB found a golden opportunity to shove him out the door. Joss Whedon was brought in to reshoot and retool the film, and it also resulted in a frankenstein project. Worse, the film, which was supposed to be DC’s “Avengers”, tanked hard. On a budget of $300 Mil (due to all those reshoots) the film only managed to make $661.3 Mil which, by Hollywood math, actually makes it a flop.

And after that, well, DC and the WB never really knew what they were doing. Some films were hits, like Aquaman and Shazam!, but most others were misses. Audiences just weren’t interested in what Warners were selling, and even while Marvel was raking in Billions for each of their later MCU films, WB had bomb after bomb. The DCEU name was tarnished. Simply put, audiences weren’t interested in what they were selling. And you can really put all the blame all the way back on the film that tried to kickstart it all: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.

Your Mom is Martha, Too?

So what lessons could be learned from this? Well, DC realized they needed someone other than Zack Snyder at the helm of their cinematic universe. But even after he left they kept struggling to find a path forward audiences cared about. Eventually they realized they had to reboot, and they needed someone new at the helm who actually could care about the stories, who cared about DC’s heroes, who knew what they were all about. They found that in the co-leads for DC studios, James Gunn and Peter Safran. So far fans seem far more responsive to what they’re putting together than anything that came from the DCEU before. Time will tell if they’ve truly hit the right track.

Additionally, WB learned what everyone had been screaming at them before: introduced your heroes slowly and let us get to know them before you start doing big crossovers. Now, the DC universe is a different beast from the get-go. DC’s cannon states that there have been heroes around on Earth for centuries, so any superhero is going to meet other superheroes all the time. But that doesn’t mean you have to make every film a crossover. The new 2025 Superman film looks like it has Mister Terrific and Guy Gardner showing up in it, and that’s cool. But the focus from the trailer is squarely on Superman. This is his film, and while other people show up to make the world feel full, Superman isn’t sharing billing and this film is really all about him. In essence, DC learned to not rush things.

Yes, they have a plan for way more superhero films, and plenty are already filming, but the studio is taking its time to get each story right. That is, in fact, something else Gunn learned during his time working on superhero films: get the script right first, make sure the story is good, and then you can make the movie. All the retooling DC did over the years proved they never had that, but that has changed now and it’s a good thing.

And, yes, rebooting can sometimes be good. People are excited for the new Superman because it has new actors in the roles, is set in a (mostly) new continuity, and scraps everything that wasn’t working before. It’s a fresh start for fans and general audiences alike, and they can just sit back and enjoy superheroes again without having to watch 50 different projects first to get in the homework to understand this new movie (okay, yes, that’s a dig at Marvel). There’s something to be said for taking the time and getting a fresh start in.

Will it all work? Again, time will tell. But right now it seems like DC has learned the lessons from their past mistakes and are working hard to not screw it all up again.

What’s Next, Martha?

Next time, we shift from DC’s slow failure to Marvel’s biggest success as we look at Avengers: Endgame and how it made Marvel the biggest film studio in the world… right up until they flushed it all away.